Luis Ramirez Beaten To Death: Some Try to Justify

The terrible story of a man beaten to death in Shenandoah, PA only gets worse when you read statements like this attempting to justify it:

Most of the comments talk about how this man’s legal status has nothing to do with his death. At the risk of being politically incorrect, I beg to differ. If Luis had stayed in his native country, where he legally belonged, he would not be dead right now.

By this this sad and twisted logic almost every crime could have been avoided if the victim simply didn’t happen to be at the scene. But truly this statement in a round-about way claims that all Mexicans are here illegally because these teens had no clue if this man was a legal citizen or not. Because he was Hispanic they judged him to be an illegal immigrant and beat him until he fell into a coma. If these teens have the capacity to kill so brutally then who’s to say who their victim would have been if Luis Ramirez hadn’t been their that night. How long would it have been before their lust for force and fury was unleashed on another victim?

If the quote above is not callous enough this blogger then begins to lay out the case in an attempt to turn a dead man into the antagonist. The blog quotes an account from an article stating the Ramirez’s were waiting for a tax return and would move back to Mexico.

As an illegal alien, Ramirez cannot get a social security number. He may have used an ITIN, but we don’t know if his employer hired him with an ITIN or a fraudulent SSN. Since Pennsylvania stopped recognizing new common law marriages, the couple would not be allowed to legally file a joint return. Tax law does not allow an ITIN-bearing taxpayer to claim Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).

Next we get into the “rumors” section of the article. Rumor number one attempts to state this was not a hate crime:

Rumor #1. This was a racially-motivated “hate crime.”

The facts: All crimes are committed out of hate, plus there’s no evidence yet that Ramirez’s race (that of white mixed with Native American, generally referred to as Hispanic) played a part. The only reason some are assuming this is because a witness claims to have heard the group yelling ethnic slurs at the man and telling him to go back to Mexico. The witness was inside her own home with her air conditioning unit roaring, which she had to turn down so she could hear. A witness (possibly the same one – the news reports are skewed) claims to have seen Ramirez and another young man “wrestling.” That would lead us to believe that it wasn’t quite the group beat-down the Republican Herald would like us to think it is.

Actually all crimes are not committed out of hate. Many crimes are committed by accident (though beating a man to death is no accident) and many are done with no malice whatsoever such as speeding, littering, failing to pick up dog poo, or loitering. I think what this blogger meant to say is that all violent crimes are committed out of hate.

While this blogger takes a lawyer’s approach in proving the witness isn’t credible they fail to note this witness was an ex police officer. The article at The Republican Herald states:

Eileen Burke, a retired Philadelphia police officer who lives near the scene, said about the time of the beating she heard someone shouting “You tell all your Mexican friends to get out of town.”

“We saw a bunch of kids walking away and screaming things like … ‘Go back to Mexico.’ We called the police,” said Arielle Garcia, 17, a friend of Ramirez who was at the scene.

While the blogger, from PA Pundits, claims Burke’s air conditioner was “roaring” this former officer states:

“With the park across the street, I hear screaming all the time, but I turned down the air conditioning so I could hear what was going on and I could see kids going back and forth and a girl was screaming ‘Please stop hitting him,’ ” Burke said. “I called 911 to get an ambulance. There seemed to be too many kids around and I thought I’d better be safe than sorry. When I got out the front door, there was one kid running down the pavement. I heard a thud and the kid ran past again.”

Obviously the screaming was so loud it alerted Burke to make her way to the window. Should we believe the blogger or the officer? To believe the blogger is to state Burke lied in the article.

If this isn’t enough even the chief of police acknowledges issues in the town.

(from the AP article)Police Chief Matthew Nestor acknowledged there have been problems as the community — the birthplace of big band musicians Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey and home of Mrs. T’s Pierogies — has tried to adjust to an influx of Hispanics, who now comprise as much as 10 percent of the population.

In “Rumor #2” we are told that Luis was a felon on the run. Here the post pulls out the super sleuth and claims to have found that Luis Eduardo Ramirez is actually a felon named Eduardo Ramirez Zavala. Zavala is wanted for two counts of aggravated assault. Strangely this blogger attempts to prove Luis is a felon while asking us to hold off calling out members of the football team (Rumor #3) as participants until more facts are revealed.

Just as the blogger has no clue if the research is reliable neither do I. However, I can add that an article in The Republican Herald was quick to point out an advocate for justice was himself convicted of involuntary manslaughter which leads me to believe they’d jump all over any damning argument against Ramirez.

Baker, convicted in Schuylkill County Court of involuntary manslaughter in an unrelated case involving the 2005 death of Schuylkill Haven resident Brian Maltais, believes the charges in the Ramirez case have yet to be filed because the victim was Hispanic.

Next this blogger points us to threats apparently made in the comments section of The Republican Herald. Similarly, I’m sure we can find many such comments advocating the beating of Mexicans. Here’s one from ABC’s article:

The rest of the country needs to follow suit. We can beat them out of here quicker than we can deport them. The piece of trash that married him knowing that he was illegal needs to be deported along with her two illegal #### children. Posted by: nbclmns 6:49 AM

Moving on this blogger makes an odd comment:

The double standard is set. Illegal aliens kill thousands of Americans every year, yet few are ever made into online race wars. Many people don’t even realize that it happens because the media doesn’t want us to know. It doesn’t fit their agenda, so no airtime.

The media doesn’t want us to know? Type “illegal” into a Google News search and 80% of the articles that pop up are about immigration. This blogger’s statement is simply not true. From my perspective it seems that anytime the media can use the world “illegal” before alien or immigrant there’s jubilation. Sadly the term “illegal” is today’s catch phrase immediately demanding attention.

No person advocating for migrants is pro-murder or any other nonsense. Whether someone belongs here or not the idea that people have no problem murdering one another is not an immigration issue. The thousands of people who have died by the hands of undocumented migrants represent tragedies that no law, walls, or hatred will ever stop. They are as tragic as those who have died by the hands of citizens and we all live in the world, together, which creates the murderer’s mentality. When we breed a culture of hatred we will soon have to reap the harvest of our labors. When we plant love, compassion and forgiveness the harvest may not be plentiful in the first season, but as we enrich the soil and teach the plants to grow we will certainly benefit greatly.

In this case a group of teens beat a man to death. Reports state it was due to his being Hispanic which I believe; however, it had nothing to do with his status as a citizen nor anything to do with any criminal record he may have had. The boys did not operate under some judicial sixth sense that told them to take this man out. Anyone attempting to disprove the hatred or atrocity in this story should be ashamed of themselves.

Teenagers in Shenandoah beat a man to death. We should all be asking how could this happen in America?

To finish let me give you some comments I found at The Republican Herald:

get a life wrote on Jul 22, 2008 7:17 AM:
” Here we go again with another minority group playing with the race card!! ”

bob wrote on Jul 22, 2008 7:35 AM:
” Why isn’t the ICE their checking those Mexicians status to be in this country? Isn’t a crime to be in this country illegally ”

Alice wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:23 AM:
” If it were a “Latino or an African-American person who did that to a Caucasian”, nobody would think twice about it, and it wouldn’t be called a “hate crime” because only whites can be racist. “

Here’s the link to the PA Pundits article Illegal Alien Beaten To Death In Shenandoah.

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38 thoughts on “Luis Ramirez Beaten To Death: Some Try to Justify

  1. What really desturbs me is that there is no mention of any arrest. For those that think these white high school kids represent the feelings of most americans your dead wrong. Find these kids and put them on death row where they belong! Illegal” immigrants isn’t killing this country its a lack of morals that trickles down from the leaders of the US to it’s citizens. Most people are followers and when you look around at the Jesse Jacksons, Al Sharptons down to the police at this small little town what examples of leadership do the young people get? Unfortunately an example that shows a good one liner carries more wieght than doing what is right. When politicians start leading with there actions instead of their false promises maybe the future of this country will get brighter. Now thats scary!

    1. Randy, i’ m not sure if you really taking about Ramirez here, but just know these issues are very serious and touchy. The analogy is this, if Ramirez is an illegal immigrant as they say he wouldn’t even attempt to fight these white-teens for fear of deportation. Second, the teens were identified as ” football stars,” who happened to drunk at the time of their encounter with the deceased. To make things worst, the juror is described as all-white, which is kind of ridiculous! My main concern is that if America believes in “equality for all” then those teens should face charges for manslaughter. If nothing is done about it, many white teens will resort to crimes of this nature and expect to go untouched by the law.

  2. That’s very funny, stupid. Air conditioners tend to roar. DUH. You are a sad excuse for a journalist. BTW I am also aware of how you twist all the Voice of the People rallies into racism. I am literally laughing out loud at you right now.

  3. Baseless name calling under an article about a man who was beaten to death. Shouldn’t surprise me.

    I call you out on your article and that’s all you got? Wow, that was easy. A/C’s are loud? You’re basically calling an ex-cop a liar. Why did you fail to mention she was a retired cop?

    I do have a question if you return. Why is Erick from Stormfront so prominent in the group now?

  4. My article? I wish! She’s seems to be a talented writer. Define “prominent” with regard to Erick. Does posting on a guestbook make one prominent? If so, then I guess it’s because he chooses to leave comments on our guestbook. Any other dumb questions I can answer?

  5. Yes, since he seems to be actively engaged by others in the guest book. I’ve already spoken to Dan about it and he says the same thing as you, but I find it rather odd that the ‘new’ VOPUSA, after so many months of the guest book being unavailable is now full of Erick’s statements. He’s stated in the board that people might not want his support because of his extreme views, but you guys seem to be accepting it. Why doesn’t anyone call out his post about the ‘angry Saxon.’

    This is all rather odd considering Dan seems so reasonable (at least in emails to me) and has a diverse family.

    Before I ask my question let’s just clear one thing up. I’m not a journalist nor have I ever claimed to be. This is called a blog and I know you understand what a blog is.

    For my question. Do you always argue with insults? Is that what they’re teaching in debate class these days?

  6. I know Dan somewhat, but I can’t answer for him. I am certain that Erick is a legal US citizen, and therefore has the same freedom of speech that you and I enjoy. If you have a problem with him, perhaps you should take it up with him. I don’t run the Voice of the people, I don’t run their website, and I rarely put posts up there. No, I don’t always argue with insults. I found some info I thought would make your day. “With the park across the street, I hear screaming all the time, but I turned down the air conditioning so I could hear what was going on …” That’s from Eileen Burke, the retired Philadelphia police officer, who I’ve heard was a meter maid.

  7. Why are you stuck on that? I stated this already.

    Just above, in the article it states,

    While the blogger, from PA Pundits, claims Burke’s air conditioner was “roaring” this former officer states:

    — “With the park across the street, I hear screaming all the time, but I turned down the air conditioning so I could hear what was going on and I could see kids going back and forth and a girl was screaming ‘Please stop hitting him,’ ” Burke said. “I called 911 to get an ambulance. There seemed to be too many kids around and I thought I’d better be safe than sorry. When I got out the front door, there was one kid running down the pavement. I heard a thud and the kid ran past again.” —

    Obviously the screaming was so loud it alerted Burke to make her way to the window. Should we believe the blogger or the officer? To believe the blogger is to state Burke lied in the article.

    I’ve clearly spoken about the air conditioning as you can see. But the bottom line is you’re calling an ex-officer a liar if you’re claiming here report is untrue.

    I have no problem with Erick others than his views – but you’re right he can do and think what he wants as long as he doesn’t hurt others. However, I find it out that your group actively engages him and never brings his white supremacist beliefs into question.

  8. Alright, so the media is now in charge of determining legal guilt and in their infinite wisdom, have weighed this beating as more important than all the Americans murdered by Mexican Invaders Every Year.

    Liberals are the reason America Deserves to be Overrun and Destroyed by these Filthy Hordes. May their children be slaves in the house of Islam, may their Sons be Eunuchs and their Daughters be Raped like the Infidel Pigs they are.

    Eat Taco Bell, shop at Wal-Mart, keep the parasitic Mexican Economy Growing and oh yeah, Forget the Alamo!

  9. You obviously made up your mind once you recognized Luis as on of the “filthy horde.” Your sick mentality is shameful.

    The media has not determined guilt at all; however ,the police are doing a piss poor job when we have an eye witness and an ex-police officer who can testify who did it.

    I suppose to you the only justice would involve deported all Hispanics. Nice mindset.

  10. Illegal or not Luis Ramirez was a human being! How dare anyone justify his death by his legal status or race? (For example: the comment that was made that had he not come to the state illegally he would still be alive.)Someone was heard by a retired police officer making racists threats to Mr. Ramirez. Luis Ramirez was murdered! Everyone involved in the death of Luis Ramirez are cowards, there was several of them against one of him. COWARDS!!! I’m confident that this is not going to die until justice is served.

  11. If you are the the Alamo represents, then yes, I would like to forget it!! With your mindset you must of had a piss poor upbringing.

  12. If you are what the Alamo represents, then yes, I would like to forget it!!! With your mindset you must have had a piss poor upbringing.

  13. it is a shame that someone had to die. i am writing to comment on the talk thats going on here.
    are we as americans to believe that all cops are honest? lets ask rodney king.
    while i am talking about the cop why was this night any different from the other nights that the kids where yelling I GUESS HER COP HEARING told her turn the air off something is going on.
    now lets reverse the scenario and say luis beat and killed the kids guess what he wouldn’t get tried for it instead he’d get deported.let me say it again i am sorry someone had to die. i believe the police that arrested luis in 2006 for driving without a license and insurance should be acomplices to murder for not handing him over to ice.let me say this before i make my next statement this very well could have been a racial attack but how can anyone say this was racial other than those that where there and if it was how do we know that luis didn’t start with something like “hey crackers keep down the noise” or something to that intent and the kids got tired of it and went to far
    sorry if i offended any body just wanted to give a none prejudist opinion.

  14. “he wouldn’t get tried for it instead he’d get deported.”

    No, he would have been tried, and if found guilty and sent to jail to serve his sentence. THEN he would have been deported. It’s obvious you are clueless when it comes to immigration laws.

    luis didn’t start with something like “hey crackers keep down the noise”

    Seeing that his girlfriend was white I don’t see why he would have called anybody “crackers”. “Cracker” is not an slur that a Mexican immigrant would use anyway.

  15. so you where there art if you would get over defending him and looking at this whole thing it was an EXAMPLE do you know what that means
    and by the way i do know about immagration laws and they get bent all the time if you do your research before making statements you will find cases not just one case but cases where ILLEGALS(not undocumented) aliens when deported instead of tried

    this is part of the problem with any case people can’t stay nuetral and we always assume before knowing the facts this is what i am trying not to do

    again, apparently you got offended, i say i didn’t write this to offend anyone that includes you art

  16. All six of these teen criminals need to be arrested and sent to prison for hate crimes. This senseless death has left behind two young children without a father, a fiance, and grieving family in Mexico. What kind of country is this becoming? What type of parents raise their children to become monsters like these six Pennsylvania teens? Just think about the family for a second..Justice needs to done here.

  17. Yes they are filthy hordes, which is why they make everywhere they go filthy and are so numerous.

    They kill Americans everyday and nobody cares, not the press, but the press is quick to call for a lynching when a few Americans are accused of killing one of the little hordelings.

    He should have been shot when he crossed the border, like all invaders should be. He, like most of them, probably came to reclaim his part of what Mexico lost when its fascist dictator in a funny hat couldn’t beat a handful of drunk syphilitic Texicans.

    Mexico lost the war, admit it is because Mexico was wrong. They could not develop the region, they could not overcome the Natives, they can not build a working economy and all they will accomplish by invading America, is destroying America.

    You want to live in a cesspool, good for you. Stew in your filth, I can tell by your grammar that you are not fluent in English anyway. Too stupid to learn or so selfish that you expect Americans to adjust to your worthless culture?

    1. I suppose you are Native American? If not then maybe your ancestors should have been shot when the crossed the border also. How can you live with such hate in your heart for a culture or people you apparently know nothing about.

  18. Here come the Aztlan crowd. Isn’t anybody bothered by their expressed agenda to ethnically cleanse the American Southwest? Aztlan and Stormfront have the same data, they both believe the same thing is happening and they both want to ethnically cleanse the Southwest. The only difference is, only difference is, Aztlan is actually winning their Demographic War.

  19. this interview just helps to mix everything up. She said luis called her and said he is being beatup what did he do say what a minute i have to make a phone call?
    i think in this situation i would have called 911
    we need the truth to be heard not stories

    this is to annoyed again what is wrong with you this is a fellow human being i think you are human still not sure with the statements you are making. If you are saying all invaders should be killed unless you are native america(indian) you should be dead then. My ancestors as well as luis’s are native to this land do your research stop spewing from the mouth hatred this is where our youth get it from ignorant scum like you

    GOD BLESS CREATOR

  20. The problem I see here is that their not treating it like a hate crime, regardless if your drinking or not its not like your on crack and dont know what your doing. If anyone here drinks then you should know that if your drunk and something exciting like this happens your high goes away pretty quick. This was a hate crime and these lil bastards need to learn a lesson, and dont give me the story about how this mexican took our job and im defending hiim cause thats bullshit there is no one here that wants to pick berries for a living. Alot of mexicans get treated this way and the reason for that is because they dont have family here that can defend them if that was to happen to a dominican a puerto rican a black man or even a white man all hell would have broken loose. By the way that spick mexican that your saying that deserved to be killed still annoyed was being a father to some white kids. One last thing, you should start checking your roots before you start calling people immigrant hordes and slaves and any other nonsense you were blabbering, were all immigrants jackass and back in the day your ancestors came in here and did not have any legal papers to live here they worked for it just like he was doing. It’s alright though like a wise man always said “ignorance needs patience”.

  21. This was murder and it is unjustifiable. And the man was an illegal alien work thief, and that means he was a career criminal.

    Both of these things can be true at the same time.

  22. Thats the only word you seem to know, hordes. Your father could be a thief as well, but that does not mean im going to call him a cracker and beat him to death. Not everyone in this country becomes a criminal there are good people and there are bad and dont think this country is dependent of itself because its bankrupted my friend and everything that comes in here comes from somewhere else so dont downplay the other countries.

  23. And who are we that watch the rest of the world suffer with little regard? It’s so great to be on top isn’t it?

  24. Lets look at ourselves from a minute just to understand what we are doing to our country image and to our reputation as a country in the eyes of the world. We like to tell China about “human rights” abuses, and tell the Serbs to respect other minorities in Serbia. And tell Shiites and Sunis in Iraq to stop ethnic hate and killings among themselves. We usually tell the world that in America, because we are better and civilized; ethnic violence, ethnic killings, etc. does not exist per se, and is because we are a superior and civilized society. The reality is that we are PURITANICAL HYPOCRITES and most countries in the world clearly see what we really are a country of double standards. We are a nation of immigrants, but we hate immigrants and kill them on the streets and parks. In fact, only in America even the homeless is beaten to death!. We call ourselves the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave, but we sorround a young immigrant in a park and beat him up to death, and then we have the nerves to call ourselves civilized, and brave, and Christians. And even justify the killing by giving excuses to the reason for the killing?. Shame on ourselves! We are a sick nation!

  25. The whole issue is about GOOD and EVIL and also mental development.. Immigration is not our problem now. We lost our values of our American civilization already. We are becoming a country of EVIL. However, it is not new for us. It was a customary American tradition in the South to lynch blacks using lynching mobs. The south was always the place of the agents of evil. What is different now is that we see the same mentality in rural PA, far away from the South. Now, lets remember that the “Appalachians” are not a group of people that are: a) civilized, b) educated, c) smart. And that the mining toxins from the coal mines not only killed many miners lungs, but also created permanent DNA mutations in their children. The working conditions of many miners in “carbon country”contributed to many of the social behavioral “mutations” in their children today. Behavioral health problems is typical of the Appalachians region for this reason and many others. It is not a surprise to see hate crimes, and ethnic intimidation, etc. coming from children and teens in regions with low IQ and DNA mutations in their miners population. That is of course the cruel reality my friends!

  26. Personally I don’t believe this is an IQ issue. However, it is an issue of parental guidance as hate, like DNA, is passed down from generation to generation.

  27. Still Annoyed,

    When you can speak about the issues without demeaning people your comments will remain. Until then you’ll have just wasted your time typing.

    I suggest you exercise your freedom of speech and desire to speak out against censorship by starting your own blog. Maybe creating something will make you happy as it seems your destruction talk seems to be making you ill.

  28. IT’S NOT OK TO BEAT SOMEONE TO DEATH. GIVE THEM ALL LIFE IN PRISON AND THEN SEE HOW TOUGH THEY ARE.THEY WILL HAVE TO FIGHT ONE ON ONE IN PRISON .WHO CARE’S IF THEY WERE GOOD KIDS AT SCHOOL THEY BROKE THE LAW NOW FACE THE TIME TOUGH BOYS.I DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR THEM AT ALL.(COWARD’S)

  29. Still Annoyed, Its obvious now that your comments are irelevant because of your obvious lack of mental stability. Something is wrong with you and you need to seek help, those days of hate and racism are over my sad and pathetic friend.

  30. Still Annoyed,

    Your IP, which apparently comes from a military base, has been banned. You obviously have too much free time and should find other venues for your racist views.

    What you lack in substance you make up for in hatred and bile thought. I believe that’s what’s referred to as a bigot.

  31. The fiance’s 3 year old was really her 15 year old sister’s child by the victim. I’m not saying this justifies what happened to him but he certainly wasn’t the saint they are trying to make him out to be. A 22 year old impregnating a 12 year old is statuatory rape in any state.

  32. i don’t who you’re and i don’t want to know but its said that you refused to get what is happening here. Ramirez is dead, what killed him is what we are interesting in. You should spend time on our constitution sometimes to help you understand the importance of “life” to us Americans. Calling him a rapist does nothing good to the issue at hand. My questions are as follows: Was the juror right in its judgment? Was the judicial system right in selecting all-white juror….come oooonn, are you guys kidding me? Pennsylvania judicial system is rusty and needs to be changed to help her citizens but not the detriment of others

  33. My opinion is that yes Ramirez is dead but there should be justice as said.

    Annoyed Again,

    you need to watch what your saying because you never know what could happen to you with all those false statements.

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